MuseumDESCRIPTION:
Episcopalian Archbishop Daniel Deng Bul Yak discusses the role of the church in peacemaking in Sudan and his concerns for the country’s future.
TRANSCRIPT:
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: This is Bridget Conley-Zilkic. Welcome to this week’s episode of Voices on Genocide Prevention. We’re very pleased this week to have with us Archbishop Daniel Deng, who is the archbishop of the Episcopal Church of Sudan. Thank you for speaking with me today.
ARCHBISHOP DANIEL DENG: Thank you.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: Can you tell our audience, just give them a little bit of background on the size and the nature of the Episcopal Church inside Sudan?
ARCHBISHOP DANIEL DENG: Thank you very much. The Episcopal Church in Sudan is one of the largest denominations in the country. We are about 4 million Episcopalians in the country. We are scattered all over the country. We have 20 dioceses in the south and we have about 5 dioceses in the north. And Episcopalians in Sudan is the largest group. And I think we have about 3,000 priests at the moment, and we have 29 bishops at the time now I am speaking. But very soon we are going to have 31 bishops and 31 dioceses, because we are a growing church in Africa.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: What has been the role of the church throughout the conflicts of Sudan? What kind of peace making role or how has it tended to its congregation throughout these decades of conflict in Sudan?
ARCHBISHOP DANIEL DENG: The church in Sudan has been playing a great role in bringing peace in the country, bringing peace and justice -- to bring all the communities together. Even during negotiation of the CPA, Comprehensive Peace Agreement, it was the Church who actually started the negotiations when we brought the tribes who were fighting one another, we brought them together. That is actually whow the peace began in the country. And we are engaged in justice and peace to see to it that justice is done and communities are living together; they respect each other. And the Church has been doing that in a very important way. And the Church is cross-denomination, it is cross-tribal entity because you have priests from different tribes and they are walking together. They are doing peace building, they are bringing reconciliation to the community. We have been doing that and we are very successful about it.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: And I think many of our listeners may not know, but a large number of the civilian deaths during the war in Sudan’s south occurred when various groups among the southerners started fighting each other. So the work that the Church did in bringing those groups, as you said, was instrumental in making peace possible.
ARCHBISHOP DANIEL DENG: Yeah, it is the Church, actually who brought the two warring parties, when they divided themselves, it was the Church who was managing to go in between them. They respect the Church, both groups respect the Church. That’s how the Church was very, very important at that particular time.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: And as you know much better than I do and our listeners know, Sudan today is really at a crossroads. You have Darfur, where there’s still ongoing conflict and massive displacement. There’s also though upcoming major national markers with elections and a referendum for Southern independence. You’ve been doing a lot of traveling in the south. Can you tell us what you’ve been hearing from about their concerns for the country?
ARCHBISHOP DANIEL DENG: Oh, yes. As I have been Archbishop for now one and a half years, I travel a lot within the country to see to it that the needs of the people are taken care of. And then in my traveling, what I am hearing from the people, people are afraid that the CPA is not-- the comprehensive peace agreement -- has never been implemented fully and that is a great fear people are having. And now time is running out. We are left with only 18 months to see that the referendum is carried out. But so many things have never been implemented.
There is a problem between the north and south because they are-- they implement what they call who, the border. The border issue is still a problem and then the comprehensive peace agreement also gave Abyei as a very important piece, but they have not implemented. And then the question of law of a referendum never been implemented they have never been done. So there is a lot thing behind time, which is bringing fear to our communities. If those things are not done in time, then there is-- imminent war may erupt at any time and that is a great fear our people are having. And then also there are unknown group who begin to re-arm the militias and some tribes to fight another tribe. And this was not there but this is a new thing now what happening. We feel that maybe those who are unhappy with the CPA are the ones doing this. Also this is bringing fear to the communities.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: There has been some fighting already. Is it your sense that the fighting is stemming from local interests or concerns, as you said, with they’re actively working against the CPA or is there interference from the government based in Khartoum?
ARCHBISHOP DANIEL DENG: Well, I may not accuse the either government of Khartoum of or government in the north, but we are saying when the CPA was signed, it was not everybody who really wanted the CPA to—who have accepted the CPA. So maybe some elements within Sudan are behind the re-arming the tribes to kill themselves. And in purpose of saying, “Well, the Southern Sudanese are unable to govern themselves.” But for us, as we see to it, we never had such crimes before, it was-- it came during the war, but died out. But now why should it come again up at a time we are really trying to see the CPA is to be implemented fully also because of that, it gives us a doubt. Somebody may be behind this. It is not in the interest of the local people.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: And do you have any stories from when you went around and spoke with local people about how their concerns are taking shape?
ARCHBISHOP DANIEL DENG: Well, they are concerned mainly that if they just came back from the war now, back to their villages, and they are being disturbed by unknown groups of people carrying arms and killing them and rob them with their kettles and their properties. This is a big concern because they are not yet-- they don’t understand who is doing that, because they do not come as a group or a tribe. They just come as like thief, like robbers. And then they just randomly kill people and that is a great fear our people are having at the moment.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: And part of the CPA, the Comprehensive Peace Agreement, was that unity was supposed to be made...
ARCHBISHOP DANIEL DENG: Attractive.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: ...attractive for southerners and also for northerners. The Northern population is obviously much more diverse than simply what the government positions would claim. Has that happened at all?
ARCHBISHOP DANIEL DENG: Well, what are the symptom of attractive because we were thinking that after the war, roads could have been built, hospital could have been built, schools could have been built and basic life should have been developed by the government. And that is what was meant to have peace attractive to people in the country. But as far, those things have not been taken shape in the country now. And that has given a lot of question to the people. What sort of life are we going through now, as far is government is not doing this? So that questions the attractiveness of the CPA.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: And as you well know, a lot of emphasis here and a lot of our work at the Museum over the past few years has really been focused on the genocide and continuing conflict in Darfur, in the western region of Sudan. As we start looking at Sudan as an entire country, how do you think we need to change or alter, or do we, a focus so that some of these looming problems in Sudan are-- so that the international focus can help progress those problems?
ARCHBISHOP DANIEL DENG: Well, I think, without undermining what efforts being done for peace in Darfur, the international community has not yet really-- they are supposed to pin down the CPA, to make the CPA workable, to use it as a document for the whole country. The CPA could be used in Darfur, could be used in other parts of the country in Sudan. But as far as the CPA is now is checking, it will be really, how is the international community is going to bring peace in Darfur and you don’t have something tangible that you can now say to the government in the north and to the rebels in Darfur? Now why don’t you use this one? But as far as I know, the CPA is not implemented, it going to be very hard to bring peace to Darfur because it will be just a matter of putting things on paper and leave it there. So still a Darfur issue could be a matter of putting thing in the paper and nothing has been implemented. So the question is for those who are international players, who are bringing peace, who are talking on behalf of the innocent people, they really need to question themselves. Whether really the CPA is a worthwhile document that can be used? If it is a worthwhile document to be used, why not implement it in southern Sudan and then use it in Darfur?
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: And for you as a Church leader, what is the emphasis of your work moving forward?
ARCHBISHOP DANIEL DENG: Well, we are looking for all international, all the NGOs, all the peace-loving communities to pressurize the government in the country to bring peace to southern Sudan and peace in Darfur. There is no need for this very big country like Sudan to be always staying in war. For what? We have lot of things. If the country is developed there will be nobody who will be against anybody. But why should international community not really to come in and support us? So we need the support from the international community really to bring peace to people of Sudan.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: And for you personally, are you optimistic about the future for Sudan?
ARCHBISHOP DANIEL DENG: I am optimistic if the world is for us. If people are really interested in peace in Sudan, it can happen. The government in Sudan can be allowed to make peace and I think I am optimistic if the interest is there. But if no interest is there, and allow the government of Sudan to use whatever chances come to them and nobody checking them, then I am doubting whether the peace in Darfur and peace in southern Sudan will be sustainable.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: Archbishop Deng, I hope that you will find that the world is with you and your important work and with Sudan. Thank you again for speaking with me.
ARCHBISHOP DANIEL DENG: Thank you very much. God bless you.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: Thank you.
NARRATOR: You have been listening to Voices on Genocide Prevention, from United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. To learn more about responding to and preventing genocide, join us online at www.ushmm.org/conscience.
