MuseumDESCRIPTION:
Gregory Shvedov of the Caucasian Knot and International Memorial discusses the current situation in Chechnya and how violence is spreading throughout the Northern Caucasus.
TRANSCRIPT:
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: Listeners, please note, after today’s episode, we will be switching to a biweekly schedule. With me today is Gregory Shvedov, who is the Chief Editor of Caucasion Knot, and a board member of International Memorial. Gregory, thank you for being here today.
GREGORY SHVEDOV: Thank you.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: I wanted to start by asking you to explain to our audience the name of your online publication, Caucasian Knot. What’s included in the Caucasus?
GREGORY SHVEDOV: Well, it’s a relatively easy question, but it’s really hard to answer, actually. It is a territory, which is south of Russia, a border of Russia. Which is on one side bordering the Black Sea, and the other side is bordering Caucasus of the Caspian Sea. It is also the side, which is bordering Turkey and Iran. And it was former Soviet Union, then, were south of the Caucasus and it was part of Soviet empire. Currently, you know, from ‘90s, it became the independent states of Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan, which are also part of Caucasus. Problematic of this region is not only because of Chechnya, which is widely known because of the wars, which were going on, and until now, are going on. But also, the unrecognized states of Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Nagorno-Karabakh, which are part of South Caucasus. And which are widely discussed on a global level currently, because of the course of the Kosovo agenda. It’s widely discussed that when Kosovo would be recognized as an independent state. It would be hard to say that these rights of recognition does not belong to other territories. And President Putin made the specific statement a few times, and it is widely discussed in these communities.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: And it’s an area, as you said, of lots of national battles, battles between different groups of people and contested ground. Also, as you mentioned, one of the most contested grounds has been Chechnya. And the Museum issued a genocide watch for Chechnya. Can you tell us a little bit about what the human rights situation is like today inside the Russian Republic of Chechnya?
GREGORY SHVEDOV: In Chechnya?
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: Yes.
GREGORY SHVEDOV: Well, the situation in Chechnya really reminds us the Soviet times, when we have official reporting. And the official reporting is saying that everything is going good. The official report is saying that there is progress in the reconstruction, that the level of disappearances is going down. Official reports are also providing us information that people that they got new houses and many other cases life is good. But really the difference from this glamour official reporting, which is currently organized through the really professional media. And reality, unfortunately, is that up to 80 percent of people are unemployed, and that the political rights are hugely abused. And, actually, you will hardly mention any political rights, which are adoptable for people. For people, actually, don’t have a right and possibility to vote, people don’t have a lot of political rights. And it’s very hard to talk about this territory from a point of view of the 21st Century. It’s much more reminding of the colonial state, where the people are actually used as slaves by the federal or imperial authorities. So people get less tortured than it was years ago. A few years ago, it was more federal military activities in the region. So people get less tortured. But anyway, this is currently Chechnya territory of absolutely no more implementation and the territory where the rule-- or the stronger person is primarily ruler.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: And although you said violence, or sort of, the immediate threat of torture or disappearances did decrease inside Chechnya. Can you talk a little bit about what’s happening to the larger Southern Russian region, in particular, Ingushetia and other neighboring Republics?
GREGORY SHVEDOV: Well, unfortunately, we do see that Ingushetia is facing a civil war, currently. Unfortunately, it is not the same the war that’s going in in Chechnya. In Chechnya federal authorities decided to provide the local authorities, loyal to the federal free support, financial and military one. Ingushetia, however, local authorities actually lose any possibility to control situation on the ground. So we currently have-- I do think that more than dozen, more than 100 of people who are very actively organizing the terrorist attacks. And why I’m saying the terror attacks, because they are targeting civilians, not only their officials and the military convoys. There is absolutely no control on both the federal and local regional level, to the things which are going on.
The people get assassinated a few times a week in Ingushetia. Most of them are officials. But unfortunately, civilians, especially non-Ingush civilians became especially targeted. And few dozens of those people have been killed. Who are those people? For example, teacher of Russian language and her family. For example, person who worked in clinic, and her relatives. So those people who are widely known in their community, for their noble, actually, service. Because, as you can imagine, people in Russia who do this work, do not receive any salary, which provide a possibility to actually live with any kind of comfort, or it’s more money, which provides the possibility to survive.
So authorities, also in Ingushetia, Murat Zyazikov, personally, is being allured to control the information which comes from the region. Caucasian Knot published this information about the special law, which was made in the Republic in order not to provide information of all the incidents, which are going on that as I told few times a week on the regular day in Ingushetia.
So also political opposition there, which is trying to send a message across the federal officials that the local authorities can’t control the situation. Local authorities are only dealing with religious extremists and terrorists in the way of torture. And torturing people, they are clearly torturing not only those who are terrorists, although, I strongly believe that even terrorists can be tortured. But they are torturing a lot of innocent people, mobilizing already a strong group of extremists. Because when you are torturing the innocent people, their relatives and themselves are clearly mobilizing their efforts in order to support the rebels or the terrorists. So the political opposition-- just one sentence to finish. Political opposition is trying to send these messages, and political opposition faces very strong repressions against them. A lot of people, which are doing pure political purpose, have been beaten, have been arrested and detained for long period of time.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: And specifically, I wondered if you could talk about an incident where some of the leadership of Memorial, the human rights organization, were also beaten?
GREGORY SHVEDOV: Yeah, thank you very much for asking this question and for taking care of the things which are going on with Memorial. It really was a very dangerous situation, because one of the people who has been kidnapped overnight and beaten, clearly by law enforcement agencies, was a very famous human rights defender. Who was even for long period of time member of Presidential Council on Human Rights. So not only famous internationally, but also, very well known in Russian human rights defender, Oleg Orlov. So he was kidnapped overnight from his room in the hotel, beaten and thrown away from the car in the middle of a field, where the people who had been beating him and few journalists from land TV – an independent TV station-- actually, not independent TV station. But one independent news program on this TV station, which is already not independent truly. And these people who had been beating journalists and Oleg Orlov, had been giving a picture or impression that they are deciding, and they are supposed to kill them. So that was clearly the action to show to these specific people that their life is totally not secure.
There’s no official investigation going on. And the President of Ingushetia clearly sent a message that he has nothing to do with these people. Athough, for any child in Ingushetia-- and this is not just an expression -- I do believe that for any child in Ingushetia and, maybe, broaden Northern Caucasus, it is quite clear who can organize this kidnapping and who can organize all this story to beat people and to throw them away in their car. Just because hotel people are saying, in Ingushetia is highly secured by the police, because it is just in the middle of administrative buildings. And someone made a call before those people came to the hotel and the police were taken away, which were securing visitors of this hotel.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: So there are all different levels of violence. You’ve got what was formerly known as a rebel movement inside Chechnya, you refer to now as a terrorist movement that’s spreading broader and particularly violent in Ingushetia. And also, government crack downs or lack of, at least, security. Why do you think that the violence is spreading? Previously, at the height of the Chechen wars, it was contained within Chechnya. Why is it at this point, it’s moving beyond those borders? And is it connected to groups that were committing violence inside Chechnya?
GREGORY SHVEDOV: Well, Bridget, that’s very good question. Actually, we do see that what state authorities don’t have an answer or probably, they are much different from you. And they don’t have an idea that they should ask these questions. We are very well aware that during the previous events in Chechnya and the previous war which was going on there, a lot of people from the Northern Caucasus have been supporting rebels and separatists inside of Chechnya. So the politics of the federal center was essentially for long periods of time to not to be open for any negotiations with separatists but to kill as many as possible of them. And that’s how Aslan Maskhadov, the elected President of Chechnya and the main leader of separatism was killed. And other leaders who have been famous as not just rebels, but also, those who are bringing ideology of separatism. Which, actually, a normal ideologies, as we see in the case of Kosovo, in the case of East Timor, in many other cases, we really see that it is possible to discuss this ideology and get specific results. We see how Montenegro became independent just last year. And no one knew it was called the separatism something close to the action is more terrorism.
So the tactics of the federal authorities want to kill as many as possible, to not to have any idea of negotiations. And they’ve brought to the very strong development of the religious movement, religious extremism. In the Northern Caucasus broader, not only in Chechnya, now, became the main instrument of that resistance. And currently, main
And people in the Northern Caucasus are living really badly. For one period of time in Caucasus north was reporting that Chechnya was not only the territory of war, but Chechnya was a territory where all of these impunity was tested and then, delivered broader to the other parts of the Northern Caucasus. So tortures happen, first of all, in Chechnya. But then, they’ve been moved, the main instrument of law enforcement agencies, to other parts of the Northern Caucasus. And then, people get tortured, and then, people get killed without any real investigation. Then, there is absolutely impunity and there is not responsibility for those criminals of war and police criminals who are torturing people. The religious idea becomes stronger and stronger, and people who are looking for justice currently in the Northern Caucasus, those people die in thousands.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: Gregory, I want to thank you very much for speaking with me today. And I’ll encourage all of our listeners to stay on top of these trends that you’ve noted, these very dangerous trends. And to increase attention by visiting your website. It’s Caucasian Knot. And we will provide a link to it with this podcast. Thank you, again, for joining me.
GREGORY SHVEDOV: Thank you very much. We do have, unfortunately, very small, up to 5 percent of all the information in English. But more than 60 materials were published in Russian, when we’re 24/7 basis. And we are very much looking not only for readers, but for those who are living in the United States or outside of the Caucasus that have specific interest to what is going on and might become our colleagues.
BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: Thank you.
GREGORY SHVEDOV: We’re welcoming any discussion and any new help we can get from those who are interested in this region. And I can provide some of the time to this specific territory. Because these people who live in the Caucasus, they really need much more attention than they get now. Thank you very much.
NARRATOR: You have been listening to Voices on Genocide Prevention, from United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. To learn more about preventing genocide, join us online at www.ushmm.org/conscience. There you’ll also find the Voices on Genocide Prevention weblog.
