MuseumDESCRIPTION:
Mia Farrow is an American Actress who is a Golden Globe recipient and has appeared in more than 40 films. She is known for her extensive humanitarian work as a Goodwill Ambassador for UNICEF. Mia Farrow has traveled at length to areas where there are humanitarian crisis as well as genocide. In addition, she has written many articles regarding the situation in Darfur, including an article published in the Wall Street Journal, the ‘Genocide Olympics,’ which she co-wrote with her son, Ronan Farrow. Mia speaks with Jerry Fowler about her recent trip to east Chad, east Central African Republic, her views on the Chinese Olympics and the Fidelity Out of Sudan Campaign.
TRANSCRIPT:
JERRY FOWLER: My guest today is Mia Farrow, award winning actress and of course the Goodwill Ambassador for UNICEF, The United Nations Children’s Fund. Mia welcome back to the program.
MIA FARROW: Thank you, pleasure to be back.
JERRY FOWLER: So, we have a lot to talk about. First, I wanted to talk about your most recent trip to the Darfur region. You went to the Central African Republic and back to Chad in February. Let me ask you first, did you try to go to Darfur?
MIA FARROW: I did not even try. I knew I would not get back with UNICEF because UNICEF and all the aide agencies are so afraid of loosing access- even if I could by some miracle secure a visa - probably it would not be in UNICEF’s best interest to bring me in. Frankly, I did not even try. Now, I have met the Sudanese ambassador to the Unite Nations who has promised to give me a visa back into Darfur. So, I am going to take him up on that.
JERRY FOWLER: Well, you should take him up on that. Although, the Sudanese Chief of Mission, the Second Commander of Washington, promised me a visa a couple of years ago, I applied and nothing ever came of it. As we know of this government, there is often quite a slip between top and lip when it comes to the promises that they make.
MIA FARROW: I was eager to get back to eastern Chad anyway because my initial trip there was in November. I do not know if we spoke then, but by then, it was no longer possible to speak of Darfur and not include eastern Chad of course. What I walked into that weekend in November was an inferno. Sixty villages were destroyed that week. The Janjaweed had come out of Darfur in vehicles, on horseback, and on camels. The same all too familiar story, of the villages that were attacked at dawn from two and three sides; massacres, devastation, people were maimed, people with eyes gouged out and countless people just dazed, sitting under trees not knowing which way to turn, surrounded by their attackers- just traumatized. Three children were thrown alive into a burning hut. Awful beyond description - sort of what we were seeing more of in 2004 in Darfur as well as my last trip to Darfur in June - the humanitarian community cannot be commended enough. As they said last January, they do not know how much longer they can hold the line. They are holding the line and sustaining 4,000 people, but the same cannot be said in eastern Chad and certainly not in that week of November. There is not that humanitarian infrastructure that is sustaining those fragile lives in Darfur.
JERRY FOWLER: So how do things compare between the infernos you saw in November to your trip in February?
MIA FARROW: There had been attacks, but not that same week. There were huge efforts from the humanitarian community, but they were insufficient and displaced persons were in the worst shape because of the refugee population. There was more of an infrastructure in place for them than the newly Chadian communities, which were just fleeing in. There was not enough water, there was not enough food. Host community’s of Chadians were accepting their fellow Chadians just as they had generously accepted Darfurians who had come across the border, but their own communities are overstretched. Their resources are overstretched. It is a very stretched region all across eastern Chad living in terror because the place is crawling because the place is covered with Janjaweed. There are huge swaps of eastern Chad is unprotected. People come across the border as they wish attacking villages with impunity, returning back to Darfur, or hanging out in the mountain areas in eastern Chad. It is a terrorized region. I think there are parts of Darfur now, according to recent visitors that are under rebel control and are relatively safe. That is a relative term anywhere in Darfur. I do not think there are such areas in eastern Chad right now.
JERRY FOWLER: Did you find displaced Chadian civilians? One thing that you referred to that a lot of people may not realize or understand is that refugees are people that cross an international border and they are often treated differently than internally displace people – people who have not crossed an international border. There is an aide operation to support these refugees from Darfur but it is not immediately transferable to people internally displaced people. Did you find them living together in camps or have they been mostly absorbed into local villages and communities?
MIA FARROW: There are makeshift camps that are not in anyway able to sustain lives. Many of them are in regions that when the rainy season comes, it will be flooded. Many of them live in very arid areas where there is no way they can sustain their own lives by planting, where there is no water. One community has to walk six hours, the women, to get to the well. There was only one well. They would go and stay all night in one line and return with heavy jugs of water on their heads. I must say those plastic water containers – I could not even lift a full one let alone carry it for six hours on my head. These are really, really desperate situations - people clinging onto life. There are high levels of malnutrition. Although at the same time we commend the humanitarians that are there, but they are in short supply. You do not have the same kind of numbers, the same kind of relief effort going on in eastern Chad.
JERRY FOWLER: How are the humanitarian workers holding up as the security has deteriorated?
MIA FARROW: They are so demoralized. Jerry, they are at stage four alert which means they do not have their families, some do not have internet. For example, if there is no phone, there is no internet for UNICEF workers. Our UNICEF workers are still living in tents. Due to the stage four, everyone has been evacuated, except the essential staff. They are confronted with the enormity of the problem and the growing of the problem. The week of March 31st, two big villages were attacked and thousands more displaced, fleeing in the bush and finally coming into refugee and internally displaced camps. People are really struggling. It is demoralizing for the humanitarian community. They are separated with many women without their children, men without their wives. They are really cut off and not only imperiled themselves, but struggling to sustain people when they really do not feel as though they have enough support to do that.
JERRY FOWLER: In addition going to Chad, you also went to the Central African Republic, which is south of Chad, but also borders on Sudan and we hear a lot less of it. We have done one program on Central African Republic on Voices of Genocide Prevention. Tell me first, why did you decide to go to Central African Republic?
MIA FARROW: I had to go for the very reason you said. We have not heard much about it, yet it has a contiguous border and a porous border with Darfur. I knew that the town of Bilou is right near the Darfur border less than thirty kilometers. It had been attacked and people had been driven into the bush. I knew this was coming out of Sudan, so I wanted to understand the situation in Central African Republic. It is indeed a complex situation. You have to look at the northeast separate from the northwest. Even the east is clearly a problem caused by the completely destabilized region of Darfur. So, those entries into Central African Republic and the attacks on the people of Central African Republic again are the same types of atrocities; the rapes, the branding, the mutilations, and the repeated attacks. That town was attacked when I left in northeastern Central African Republic- that is an imperiled region. Now we hear a thousand people have entered from Sudan into Central African Republic. A thousand of men, a force of a thousand strong, is now in northeastern Central African Republic. I just received that report and I do not know what they will do. Certainly Bozize, the president of Central African Republic, has very little jurisdiction, outside of Bangi, virtually no jurisdiction. In the northwest, a lot of that is coming from Chad, but again people are saying that is coming out Sudan by Chad. Where ever that is coming from, the attempt is to overthrow Bozize. In the process, of course it is a civilian population. Hundreds of thousands are primarily children living literally in the bush eating leaves and roots and sucking swamp water. If you stop your vehicle and they see that you do not have your machine gun, it is very likely they will come out. Their teeth are rotten and they are emaciated and they are in remnants of clothes or no clothes at all. They say their children are dying. It is a desperate situation and very few aid workers are there. My hope is that we would get UNICEF. You know, we are asking our aide workers to put themselves in the line of fire and could put them into the same caldron that the people are in. That is a tall order. At the same time, we want to see the usual players are aide agencies that we respect so much that are in Darfur and are struggling to keep a foot hold in eastern Chad, mostly are not in Central African Republic. We have wonderful, new leadership with UNICEF, but I know some of the Italians, just withdrew from Central African Republic. They were the only ones there. There were some Catholic missionaries, but that is about it.
JERRY FOWLER: The picture that you described and that you also describe on your website about Central African Republic, as you say, people are led into the bush. There is actually a very moving note that you have on your website where you described that people coming out of the bush, but then they heard another vehicle coming and they all fled back into the jungle. Is there any evidence of security? I know there have been some reports where the French military has gone into the northwest. Have you seen any elements of that?
MIA FARROW: I did see three to four hundred French troops in the northeast. They are there. They are guarding the air strip in the northeast because that attack coming out of Sudan was major. It took the French combined with Chadian forces and for the Central African Republic, it took them three days with air attacks and everything to drive back before forces came out of Sudan. There were multiple vehicles. There were countless vehicles. Some women say they were countless of vehicles. That was probably her perception. There may have not been thousands. However, many vehicles, but many vehicles – this is confirmed by me talking to French troops that were way out because they suffered from the many losses. There were many French troops killed. A group of them that I ran into when I was leaving - I ran into them in Bangi. They said that it was a fierce air battle. I think three French troops were killed. It took them three whole days and that was there whole, French top notch fighters. It took them three days to reclaim that tiny airstrip, which when we came into that, you could not believe the military was in there - all three uniforms and hundreds of troops. The heavy presence was right there and on the border with Sudan. Yet, a thousand just entered from Sudan, apparently disguised as refugees. They are in that region right now. What will happened? We do not know.
JERRY FOWLER: Let us change gears for a second because another thing that you have been very active on and I have to say, you have been incredibly busy on Darfur. In addition, going to the region, you have an op-ed in Los Angeles Times a couple a months ago about selling your stock in Fidelity and joining the Fidelity Out of Sudan Campaign. Can you explain briefly why is Fidelity being targeted?
MIA FARROW: Well, you probably know by now how passionate I feel about the people of Darfur, eastern Chad, and Central African Republic. What I had not realized until November and I just got back from my trip I described. I heard about PetroChina and Sinopec Fidelity’s wink. I called my account, my CPA, and said, “Do I have any of my pension plans in Fidelity?” To my horror he said, “Yes.” Then I said to him, “how many minutes before we can get it out?’
I wrote my letter of conscience and it did not seem enough. I then called somebody from the Board of Directors and to my surprise they answered the phone. I said, “Do you realize what a whole lot of money of Fidelity is doing in PetroChina and Signopec? Do you realize that those two oil companies are essentially underwriting the suffering in Darfur?” This seeming very nice man expressed surprised and asked me to send him all of that material which was in November. When nothing had happened - in fact they increased their shares - I wrote the op-ed, one for the Boston Globe and then more recently one on Berkshire Hathaway which I wrote with Jody Williams.
JERRY FOWLER: ...which is the company run by the famous investor, Warren Buffett.
MIA FARROW: Yes, the famous investor, but also a Philanthropist too. This is a guy who gave – I do not know how many – but a gazillion dollars to the Bill Gates’ Foundation. He selflessly did that. He did not even need his name on it. Yet, he had a nerve to say to his share holders, “Look it does not really matter – these two oil companies – because if we do not put money into it, somebody else will.” That is the old machete argument. If we do not supply machetes to the Hutus then somebody else will supply them, so we might as well supply them. That does not hold for a guy that is suppose to be so moral. Jody and I wrote an op-ed about Berkshire Hathaway.
JERRY FOWLER: Fidelity has recently announced that it has sold some of its investments in PetroChina.
MIA FARROW: Yes, but it sold 91% of its shares, but in the American market place. So, I called them and asked them about that and I said, “What about in Hong Kong? You guys have a half of billion shares in your much more opaque Hong Kong market place. What is going on with Fidelity in the Bahamas? I cannot even figure it out.” She was a spokesperson for Fidelity and she never claimed that Fidelity divested for moral reasons that it was simply an individual decision by the district managers and directors. I said, “So apparently, simultaneously, all these managers and directors decided to divest their holdings in PetroChina and Sinopec to 91%.” She said, “Yes.” I said, “So would they be the same directors and managers that have governance in Hong Kong?” She said, “Yes.” I said well, it appears to me that they are just cleaning their American face.” There was no reply to that.
JERRY FOWLER: Silence.
MIA FARROW: Yes, I am glad that they did what they did. I would look to them to clean it up in Hong Kong to the extent that they have control over there as well as the holdings in Bahamas. It is only one plank mind you. Of course when we look at China and there are these massive oils – 70% of these oil revenues are being to fund the genocide in Darfur.
JERRY FOWLER: ...and buy weapons.
MIA FARROW: It is an expensive business to cause this much suffering and death. You have to have the Antonov bombers, the attack helicopters, the small arms, the uniforms, the arming and training of the Janjaweed, the vehicles, building their own ammunition factories, and tools in Sudan. This is expensive. This is a country that has no self-defense needs or granting military force. While we are looking at China – I have been so focused on this – that it might be a moment to mention the Olympic Games that are upcoming.
JERRY FOWLER: Let us talk about that and focus particularly on the op-ed you had in the Wall Street Journal, with your son, Ronan, where you called attention to Steven Spielberg’s role as the artistic advisor to the 2008 Olympics in Beijing and suggested he was at risk of going down in history as the Lenny Riefenstahl of those Olympics. Lenny Riefenstahl was the filmmaker that glorified Adolf Hitler?
MIA FARROW: Surely he did not want to go down in history as that, nor the sponsors which are Coca Cola, Johnson & Johnson, I do not have them all at my fingertips, but they are sort of family brand names. Steven Spielberg was the most surprising because we revere him for his Shoah foundation as well as his philanthropic endeavors for a guy that I never heard anyone say an unkind thing about for all my years in working in Hollywood and in film. I felt that he could not have known. I had written to him back in August and September, sending him some of my photographs I took in Darfur. I also sent him information about China’s oil entanglement. I wrote him again when I heard he had signed on to be the Artistic Director of the Olympic Games in Beijing. Then when I did not hear from him – Jerry you got to know I am on Darfur time because ten thousand people a month are dying - so, I just did not wait for a very long time. Ronan and I wrote the piece you referred to, which called upon him to use his leverage. It is really more, “Please china, please China, use your unique point of leverage to convince Khartoum to admit the peacekeepers of the sort outlined in UN resolution 1706 – 20,000 UN peacekeepers – please China, you got the power. You get Khartoum to stop the bombing, to disarm, to call off, and reign in the Janjaweed. You get Khartoum to work to a peace agreement that seem to be just by Darfur’s people. Why don’t you do that, please China?” In the meantime, Mr. Spielberg, would you reserve your artistic cooperation.” Those things are actually tangible realities, as experienced by Darfur’s people. It cannot just be public relations. Lately, China has been saying a lot of pretty things. Then there is a big public relations firm in Washington, D.C. that says what great things they are doing. They are giving money to the people of Darfur. They are wishing that Khartoum would admit the peacekeepers. However, I say they are a very powerful country with unique leverage and can be doing a whole lot more. I would hope that Mr. Spielberg will reserve his artistic cooperation, until Darfur’s people experience some type of safety.
JERRY FOWLER: After your piece came out, he did write a letter to China asking them to do a lot of what you are saying. Do you think that that is enough or should he do more?
MIA FARROW: I think it is commendable that he did that. I think it is great that he did that. I would hope that something is going on that we do not know about. Maybe he has a lot of power or maybe he can get to the depths of Mr.Hu and actually get him on the phone and way in a significant way. Then I would hope that if he fails to get these things accomplished. He claims in the New York Times, in which he wrote a subsequent article, that he did not know of China’s oil entanglements. I would have to believe that that is true. I would hope that he has better advice now to what to ask of China and what is simply public relations or rhetoric to pull out. They do not want their games tarnished. We do not want the games tarnished. How great would it be, “one world, one dream?” However, there is one nightmare China cannot sweep under the rug and so that is where the term, “Genocide Olympics” has gone viral among advocacy groups.
JERRY FOWLER: As we are running out of time here, you have one relatively new website, www.miafarrow.org, which is devoted to your Darfur work. Why did you create this website?
MIA FARROW: What I was looking for way back in 2004, what I wanted to understand about Darfur – I had to scour the internet, go from website to website because everything was going on beneath the media radar. I wanted to create a website that had just as much information as people wish to find. I wanted it to be simple for someone to say what can I do, who can I give to or more deeply, what is going on there? I wanted to link to other sites that were more informed than I, sites that informed me. I wanted to have one site that everyone could visit to get themselves informed.
JERRY FOWLER: It is a remarkable site and I encourage everyone to see it; www.miafarrow.org. I have been talking to Mia Farrow, who is the award winning actress and Goodwill ambassador. Mia, thank you and I hope to talk to you sometime soon.
MIA FARROW: Thank you as well.
