MuseumDESCRIPTION:
Archbishop Lukudu Loro of Juba in Southern Sudan shares an update on the situation in Southern Sudan with Jerry Fowler (October 28, 2005). He addresses the success and sustainability of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement, the sudden death of rebel leader John Garang, the integration of Southern Sudan into the government of National Unity, the Government of Sudan’s support of the Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA), and reconstruction of the South.
TRANSCRIPT:
JERRY FOWLER: This is Jerry Fowler of the Committee on Conscience at the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C. One way the Holocaust Museum seeks to honor the memory of those who suffered in the Holocaust is to speak out on contemporary genocide and threats of genocide. Over five years ago, the Museum began warning of the threat of genocide in southern Sudan and the Nuba Mountains of central Sudan. While more recent attention has been focused on the emergency in the Darfur region of western Sudan, a decade’s old conflict in the South had by the year 2000 claimed two million lives, mostly of civilians. The conflict in the South involved many of the same issues of ethnic and racial persecution that are central to the violence in Darfur. It also included a religious element as the majority of southerners follow traditional indigenous religions, or are Christians, while the Sudanese government is dominated by Muslims. Even as the situation in Darfur continues to worsen, a tentative peace has taken hold in southern Sudan. Internationally sponsored negotiations culminated in January 2005 with a peace treaty, known as the Comprehensive Peace Agreement, or CPA between the Sudanese government in Khartoum and the main southern rebel group, the Sudanese People’s Liberation Movement. The CPA provided for power sharing and wealth sharing and allows the southerners to hold a referendum in six years to determine whether to remain part of a unified Sudan or to secede. Under the terms of the CPA, the southern rebels joined a government of National Unity in July, but prospects for success of the CPA were clouded later that month when the rebel leader, Dr. John Garang, was killed in a helicopter crash. For an update on the situation in southern Sudan, we are joined today by Paolino Lukudu Loro, the Catholic Archbishop of Juba. Juba is the largest city in southern Sudan, and throughout the conflict in the South, was occupied by government troops who are supposed to withdraw under the terms of the CPA. Archbishop Lukudu, welcome.
PAOLINO LUKUDU LORO: Thank you.
JERRY FOWLER: It has been an eventful year in Sudan, and in southern Sudan. January 9th, the CPA was signed, on July 9th, John Garang was installed as vice president in a new government of National Unity, and then on July 30th, his sudden death in a helicopter crash, and you officiated at his funeral. Describe for me now after this eventful year, the atmosphere in Juba and southern Sudan.
PAOLINO LUKUDU LORO: Thank you. I have to say it is clear that the peace agreement has been accepted by the southern Sudanese. They have accepted it so much that they are ready to defend it, they are ready to promote it, and they are ready to own it. Therefore the peace agreement has really been accepted by the southern Sudanese in particular as the best way to solve the war situation that has reigned in the Sudan. Therefore, the south Sudanese are very happy at this moment, at least as observed in Juba, about the achievement of the peace in the Sudan. They are really looking forward to see to it that it is promoted, it is defended, and it is really owned by them and by others that should come to help them. This is what is happening in south Sudan.
JERRY FOWLER: What will be the impact though of the sudden death of John Garang?
PAOLINO LUKUDU LORO: It is true. The death of John Garang has been a very strong blow; not so much for the peace agreement because it was already achieved, but I think it is more for the peace practice. We in the churches say that the peace of the Sudan has been signed in the papers, but then, that is not enough. It has to come to the hearts of the Sudanese people of southern Sudan in particular, and it has to go really into the localities, into the lives of the people. Now, this is the aspect that John Garang has not been there, and therefore, I think it was a big issue because he had plans which he himself had to carry out during the peace period. But it is not something that jeopardizes the peace. The SPLM is a movement, and the Sudanese people are there, and they are ready to support and still to continue with the peace, not withstanding the death of John Garang. I say that even if John Garang has died, the south Sudanese people are pursuing the steps of the peace that have been already achieved.
JERRY FOWLER: As I mentioned in the introduction, the city of Juba was occupied throughout the war by government troops, and I understand they are supposed to withdraw under the terms of the CPA. Have they pulled out of Juba, or have they at least reduced their presence there?
PAOLINO LUKUDU LORO: At least in this moment, what I know is that the government troops are still in Juba. The garrisons which are around Juba are still there. I believe that there is a limit period, I think for this exercise, for these soldiers, from these areas, that they are there, but ultimately, they will have to move according to the positions of the CPA. At this moment, they are still in Juba.
JERRY FOWLER: A major issue, obviously, is whether the South will ultimately secede or stay as part of a unified Sudan. John Garang was a proponent of unity, but my impression is that most southerners prefer independence, separation. Does his death increase the chances that the South will ultimately vote to secede?
PAOLINO LUKUDU LORO: It is true that the unity of the Sudan with the south of Sudan is a serious matter. I remember it was the Church that proposed the idea of a referendum for south Sudan to look into the unity or into succession. By that, the Church did not mean to divide the Sudan, but ultimately, the Sudan has actually never been completely unified. The people of Sudan have never been one in history. Therefore, I think this is a very beautiful chance to offer it to the Sudanese people, in particular to the southern Sudanese people. The way, of course, we are on now with the peace agreement is that the unity should be made attractive; yes, I think that is the right way out. But, all in all, I think if there is going to be that unity it will take a very long time to achieve. The unity means the true peace of the Sudan where the Sudanese people will be one people completely in heart and in life. Otherwise, without the serious achievement of this type of unity, then the people of Sudan will talk of succession during the referendum.
JERRY FOWLER: Do you think that there can be enough progress in creating a unity in six years which is provided for under the CPA to persuade southerners to vote to stay as part of Sudan?
PAOLINO LUKUDU LORO: Personally speaking, I do not think the six years are really enough time for the Sudanese people, as well as for South Sudan particularly, to have enough information, to have enough energy to change life, to change memories, to change the situation of hardships that have gone on for so many years. We have been in war for 22 years and more. Now after this war, to rebuild the peace and unity after 22 years, and therefore, I think the six year period will not be enough. The six years is only a position in which, probably if the South of Sudan chooses to separate, then still I put the possibility of unity within the separation, in the sense that still as Sudanese people they will have to continue to study the possibility of unity even if they will be separated. I will call that separation a temporary separation where the Sudanese people where if they are serious, they can build up with time, with life dialogue, that unity that the Sudan will need.
JERRY FOWLER: One issue that often does not get enough attention as it probably deserves is the support by the Khartoum government of the Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA) which is a Ugandan rebel group that is notorious for kidnapping children and forcing boys to be soldiers and girls to be sex slaves. I have heard reports that the leader of the LRA, Joseph Kony, is living near Juba and that he is still receiving support from Khartoum, and also that the LRA is creating havoc in southern Sudan. What do you know about that? What is the situation with the LRA right now?
PAOLINO LUKUDU LORO: Really, I have to say this about the LRA—I come from Juba, I lived in Juba—what is true is the LRA until this moment are around Juba, they are between Juba and Uganda. Very unfortunately, they are really tormenting the people of Juba, and the people on the eastern bank of Sudan. This is really what I know. It is going to be very unfortunate. I have never seen Joseph Kony himself. I have never even known whether he is in Juba itself or where he is. So, I really cannot tell you about Joseph Kony. But, about the LRA, we know for sure that my people in Juba are really suffering from the activities of the LRA. We have even tried to help and to relate, to bring peace between the LRA and their own government. After the peace agreement of Sudan, unfortunately in south Sudan in Juba, between Uganda and Juba, still the LRA are really a problem.
JERRY FOWLER: The Sudan People’s Liberation Movement has often been criticized as undemocratic and dominated by the Bor Dinka ethnic group that John Garang came from to the detriment of southern Sudan’s many other ethnic groups. Now, under the Comprehensive Peace Agreement, the movement is creating a new regional government of South Sudan. What are the prospects that this government of South Sudan will allow broad democratic participation in politics?
PAOLINO LUKUDU LORO: The question of tribalism is a point in Africa, as well as in South Sudan. I accept it. However, in the case of Sudan now, not withstanding that there will be actually moments and times when this perhaps could be felt—this tribalism even in the administration of South Sudan now—yet I have to confirm that the people of South Sudan in their meeting in South-South dialogue in Nairobi have also confirmed this, that they are ready for the unity of South Sudan. They are ready to fight tribalism vigorously. Therefore, I think the government in South Sudan knows that the people of South Sudan want a genuine administration, a genuine unity which will bar tribalism, differences on the basis of tribe of that sort. My faith is that the people of South Sudan will fight very seriously to see that the administration now coming into position in South Sudan will do well. I think, already I see in the membership—it is still the beginning of the administration—but I think, I believe that this angle here will be dealt with properly.
JERRY FOWLER: After generations of neglect and decades of war, South Sudan has very little infrastructure and faces daunting tasks of reconstruction and development. I understand there is something in the neighborhood of fifteen kilometers of paved road throughout South Sudan. International aid has been promised since the signing of the CPA, but I wondered to what extent have you begun to see any kind of peace dividend?
PAOLINO LUKUDU LORO: It is true. Since the peace agreement—really to be very honest—there is as of yet, nothing of this peace dividend in South Sudan. I think the point is that the process of the implementation of the peace agreement resolutions is really very slow. It is very, very slow. The development of peace into practical life, into the development of people—like as John Garang had promised by then that he needed twelve roads paved and well done in South Sudan. He had also pronounced that he wanted to carry the towns to the villages, and not villages to the towns. These are really the aspirations of South Sudan. But, since the peace agreement, this has not been done, and I think the point is, because there was not yet government in South Sudan. Now with the institution of the government in South Sudan, where there will be proper administration in the ten states, then I hope that this aspect will come. Otherwise, up to date, there is really not even an emergency, it is provided for. There are so many people now coming back into Sudan, into South Sudan, since the beginning of the peace agreement. So, I think this aspect is very, very slow, and it very unfortunate many people are suffering because it is not yet there.
JERRY FOWLER: Archbishop, thank you very much for speaking with us. We have been talking to Paolino Lukudu Loro, the Catholic Archbishop of Juba in southern Sudan. To learn more about the situation in Sudan, visit our website at www.committteeonconscience.org.
