MuseumDESCRIPTION:
Jerry Fowler interviews Dr. Mudawi Ibrahim Adam, chair of the Sudan Social Development Organization (October 26, 2005), about the conflict in the Darfur Region of Sudan and the situation of Darfurian refugees in Chad. They discuss Darfur’s recent increase in violence, the responsibility of the Government for the genocide, the effectiveness of the African Union troops, and what is necessary for security in the region.
TRANSCRIPT:
JERRY FOWLER: Hello, this is Jerry Fowler, Staff Director of the Committee on Conscience at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington. The Holocaust Museum seeks to honor the memory of those who suffered in the Holocaust by speaking out on contemporary genocide and threats of genocide. Since the beginning of 2004, we have been focused on the emergency in the Darfur region of western Sudan. Today we are joined by Dr. Mudawi Ibrahim Adam who is the chair of the Sudan Social Development Organization, known by its acronym SUDO. SUDO is dedicated to the promotion and protection of human rights, peace building and development, and has been monitoring human rights abuses in Darfur. Dr. Mudawi is in the United States to receive a reward from Human Rights First, a New York based advocacy group. Dr. Mudawi, welcome.
Recent reports suggest that there has been a marked increase in violence in Darfur including organized attacks by government-allied militias on camps where displaced people have sought refuge. What is your sense on what is happening on the ground in Darfur now?
MUDAWI IBRAHIM ADAM: Unfortunately, things in Darfur seem to be developing in a kind of urban movement, splitting, not organized, and the government is losing control over the militias. Everybody is trying to get the benefit of the chaos. The African Union forces are not doing a good job with protection of civilians. The United Nations is trying to pull out due to insecurities. Everyone is trying to get the opportunity of this situation to do whatever one wants to do. Uncontrolled militias are attacking camps. Sometimes it is not easy to imagine why they are attacking camps, because in these camps, people have nothing, unless it is ethnic cleansing, or revenge, or retaliation for something that happened.
I think the government is the one benefiting of the status of chaos in Darfur. The rebels are fighting to topple out the government in Khartoum, and if things develop in chaos in Darfur, then the rebels will be content in fighting with different tribes in Darfur, and then they are not going to threaten Khartoum.
JERRY FOWLER: You mention that the government is benefiting from the deterioration and the situation. To what extent are they promoting violence, are they responsible for violence? And to what extent has the government just lost control of the situation?
MUDAWI IBRAHIM ADAM: The government is benefiting out of it, definitely. If the rebels, instead of fighting the government, started fighting themselves, started fighting with the tribes, then the government will be satisfied. They do not care if they lose Darfur, or if Darfur became another Somalia. They will continue to have power in Khartoum; they will continue to export oil and getting money out of it, so they do not care what happens to the people in Darfur. It might not be the central plan by the government to organize these militias and send them to attack, but at the end of the day, it falls under the benefit of Khartoum.
JERRY FOWLER: You mentioned, of course, the African Union force that is on the ground in Darfur and that at this point numbers about 6 or 7 thousand people, men. How effective has this force been in protecting civilians and establishing security?
MUDAWI IBRAHIM ADAM: One of the people in the IDP camps said to me, “What is the use of these people? They are just making it worse. They are not protecting us.” And in a couple of instances, they have not been protecting civilians in the camps where there is a need actually. Camps are being attacked by militias and the African Union forces are not actually protecting civilians, even when children run to their compounds.
The second thing is how they are respected by the population. They are being viewed by many people as expatriates, they are people coming for money, that they are not prepared to die, that they are just getting good salaries from the African Union and they are not really doing anything.
The third thing is, due to the agreement between the government and the rebels, these people have to be accompanied by the Security forces from the government of Sudan and a representative from the rebels, and a representative from the Chadian government, who is a mediator of the ceasefire agreement. So, the government of Sudan is not trusted. Its security is not trusted because the government has been bombarding and bombarding these villages, and these villages just do not trust the government of Sudan. So, how can you bring the security of the government of Sudan with someone who is supposed to protect the civilians? They are just viewed as government allied forces.
JERRY FOWLER: On national radio recently an official of the United States government suggested that their was less violence over the course of the past few months in Darfur because of the presence of the African Union and said in particular that there were people who were living in the countryside from the targeted ethnic groups who were able to live in their villages and farm because of security provided by the African Union. On your many trips to Darfur, have you seen evidence of this?
MUDAWI IBRAHIM ADAM: The United Nations has limited its existence in western Darfur because of increased violence. There is increased violence even against the African Union forces; they have been ambushed, some of the mediating soldiers have been killed, they have been afflicted, there are so many rapes on those people who have moved from the camps to cultivate their land during the rainy season, and there are so many people who are being newly displaced. For me, this is not true, because everybody is saying that there is an increase in violence in Darfur.
The second thing is that there are villages existing in areas where the rebels are in control, not in the areas where the government controls. All the villages in west Darfur have been completely burned out. All the villages in many places where there is no rebel existence have been wiped out. The few villages which exist are in rebel controlled areas, and they have recently been bombarded, on the roads between Nyala and Al Fashir. Everybody knows about it, and all reports have said it.
JERRY FOWLER: What do you think is necessary for security to be established in Darfur?
MUDAWI IBRAHIM ADAM: I think for me it is very easy. If the United Nations presence and international NGO presence within IDP camps is seen as a protection—that means if we have an international force which has presence or can experience presence in the different areas in Darfur—that will bring security. Just presence for a few minutes in a camp and the presence will be viewed by all parties that there is somebody around watching and seeing what is happening, that will make a very big protection for the people.
JERRY FOWLER: You mean an international armed presence?
MUDAWI IBRAHIM ADAM: It should be an international armed presence, but this presence in its own is not enough. We need political presence, a political involvement by the international community in resolving the conflict in Darfur.
JERRY FOWLER: You have been arrested by the Sudanese government, as I understand it, three times in the past eighteen months, in connection with your advocacy on Darfur. How difficult is it to be a human rights advocate in Sudan today?
MUDAWI IBRAHIM ADAM: It is difficult, but I do not think we have any choice, because either we do what we think is right or we have to quit our own country. If we want to live a decent life in that country, a life with dignity for all of our people, then we have to pay attention to what is going on, and we have to talk about it. This is the minimum; we have to talk about it.
JERRY FOWLER: Dr. Mudawi, thank you so much for being here and good luck.
MUDAWI IBRAHIM ADAM: Thank you.
JERRY FOWLER: For more information about the genocide emergency in Darfur, visit our website at www.committeeonconscience.org.
